Comments on: The Economics of UFB & Committed Information Rates https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/ Mon, 08 Aug 2011 04:18:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Tristram Cheer https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-38 Mon, 08 Aug 2011 04:18:11 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-38 I can shave $12k off your cost aswell, CIR on UFB is misleading, UFB GPON is mandated as a 24:1 split which gives each connection 100mbit/50mbit of uncontested bandwidth for each home. As for the NNI, Why would you oversubscribe that? $300 per 10gbit connection makes it attractive to run 100%.

You’re regional backhauling is VERY open, Transit from Northland to AKL is going to be much cheaper than transit from CHCH to AKL. You’re also ignoring providers who provide International Transit regionally negating the need for bigger intre-regional links. Take into account local IX traffic and local CDN nodes and the amount of bandwidth you need to buy changes alot.

Overall a nice attempt to simplify the complex world of ISP’s but it’s cheaper on some items and more costly on other’s 🙂

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By: jonbrewer https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-37 Wed, 03 Aug 2011 21:45:08 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-37 In reply to Hamish MacEwan.

UBA contention ratios are the pig, running them over UFB would be the lipstick.

20:1 is the contention assumed at the handover between CFH and the ISP in the above case, the minimum handover speed required to provide 1000 subscribers with a 2.5mbps CIR.

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By: Hamish MacEwan https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-36 Wed, 03 Aug 2011 21:32:14 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-36 In reply to jonbrewer.

Thank for clarifying that. My mistake.

As for the comparison, I’d like to see it, your example says there is no pig, lipstick or not.

And where is the 20:1 contention?

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By: jonbrewer https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-35 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 23:06:28 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-35 In reply to Hamish MacEwan.

Hamish, this model preserves CIR only through the operator’s network to its point of interconnection with other networks. When handed over to international, national peered, and national unpeered, the network becomes PIR/best effort. But that’s how it goes.

A model preserving current UBA options, delivered over UFB, would be profitable. It would also be putting lipstick on a pig.

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By: Hamish MacEwan https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-34 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 19:05:40 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-34 CIR intra network, let alone International, what a fantastic way to waste resource in fixed allocation, that will rarely or never be used.

The CIR concept is useful in the autonomous network, not beyond. It was useful when one operator owned the switch, but in a collaborative network, it’s a useful internal metric and customer comparison, nothing more.

Thus it’s hardly surprising that if you take on a Quixotic pursuit like sustaining a broadband CIR beyond it’s useful handover point you will get:

a) No improvement to a lot of sites
b) Ludicrous costs

Taking the CIR international is a beau geste that I suspect would leave a significant proportion of that expensive resource languishing at the far end due to weaknesses in other networks and services.

What would be an interesting comparison would be between this model (1K, 20:1, 2.5Mbs CIR) and the current UBA options (changing the CIR and adjusting the connection price) and see if that “works” “economically.”

PS. I like the ISP Skytower POP, particularly the way that diagram illustrates the ease with which the International port can be the single locus of metering, if you must, along with the packet shaping, if you must.

Hamish.

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By: jonbrewer https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-33 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:22:51 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-33 In reply to Nathan.

Oh, well that’d make the economics of maintaining CIRs significantly worse.

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By: Stu https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-32 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 06:51:06 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-32 In reply to jonbrewer.

As mentioned previously, I am in no screaming rush to enter the UFB market.

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By: Nathan https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-31 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 06:06:43 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-31 I am quite.. intimately aware of dom vs. intl split in some large NZ networks, who have on-net CDNs (Google, Akamai, etc.)
The intl is more like 80%, assuming on-net CDN is counted as domestic, not the 20% you’ve assumed here.

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By: jonbrewer https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-30 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:29:53 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-30 In reply to Stu.

So if you’ve got an established business and you enter UFB trying to preserve a 2.5mbps CIR to the Internet, you’re going to lose money on every new subscriber. Sounds great, sign me up!

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By: Stu https://nztelco.com/2011/07/31/the-economics-of-ufb-committed-information-rates/comment-page-1/#comment-29 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:26:36 +0000 http://nztelco.com/content/?p=285#comment-29 I can take $52K/month out of your opex straight away as an established independent ISP and no need for regional backhaul. That drops your price to $105/month for break-even which is close to the predicted market rate of $100/month that I’ve been banging on about s the top of market for ages now. Acquisition is a valid strategy.

Other than that, I can’t see anything wrong with your estimates and the overall analysis. I do not see any way to make money from UFB at this stage. It requires national backhaul to drop to <$10/month and international <$30/month to confidently break even. That's 2014 at the earliest. I welcome our new UFB overlords as the first market entrants and await the liquidation sales.

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